twicketface

As you probably know, the Senate is debating the merits of an amendment to ban gay marriage. I find this to be utterly ridiculous and here's why.

First of all, sexual orientation is not a choice. I didn't choose to be heterosexual any more than a gay person chooses to be homosexual. It may be a lifestyle that you disagree with, but making it illegal won't stop it. All people deserve equality. Plain and simple. Making gay marriage illegal won't mean that there won't be gay people anymore. They'll still fall in love, date, live together, raise children and so forth. An amendment to prevent rights to certain groups of people is a dangerous precedent to set.

Look, I don't drink. But it's not my goal to prevent everyone from drinking just because I don't. Prohibition didn't work at stopping people from consuming alcohol and banning gay marriage won't stop gay people from being together. If you don't like it, don't do it.

Those who point to the Bible and say that it's wrong are justified in doing so, if that's what they believe. But all that should mean is that THEIR church of THEIR denomination doesn't perform gay marriages. The church I go to believes in and performs gay marriages, which is one of the reasons we attend services there. As we (theoretically) live in a country that has a separation between church and state, the government shouldn't be using religious reasons to deny gays (or bisexuals or transgendered for that matter) the right to marry. Marriage licenses are issued by the state, not the church.

Those who think that it will negatively impact the sanctity of marriage need to realize that marriage has very little sanctity left, due to how ridiculously easy it is to get married and get divorced. If you want to increase the chances of successful marriage, get involved with pre-marital counseling in your area. My parents did this for four years, counseling couples before they would get married to make sure they knew what they were getting into and to think about the different challenges it will present. Marie and I went through it as well and we both found it to be beneficial. Marriage is not "dating+", it's a commitment to another person, through thick and thin, forever. FOREVER. And there's nothing to say that two people of the same sex can't have that level of commitment to each other - they've never even been given the chance.

Besides, I find the idea of a man and a ferret getting married to be adorable.

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From:

banshee99.livejournal.com

I disagree on a few different levels.

First off, the institution of marriage is a Christian principle/concept, stemming from the Bible. As most Christians believe gay marriage to be wrong, it is doubly offending that not only do gays lead a lifestyle contrary to what the Bible predicates is right, they want to solidify that lifestyle with a Biblical concept.

Also, I don't believe sexual orientation is something one is born with; I believe it is a very willful choice. I'm not saying that a man wakes up one days and says, "I'm going to be gay from now on! I choose to!". I believe that Satan is very good at dangling various temptations in front of all people, and the people with less moral upbringing and people that are more susceptible to attacks from Satan are more likely to succumb to the idea that the things they feel might be right for them. Emotions are not fact; just because you feel something doesn't mean it's true. In fact, most of the time, your emotions will lie to you, especially if someone is operating on half- or mis-information.
Where am I going with this again? Oh, right. Another reason that I believe homosexuality to be a choice rather than something pre-destined is because the Bible says it is sin. God is not going to create someone with sin in them and then condemn them for it. God does not mess up. He also says that He will never give us more than we can handle, that He will never allow us to be tempted more than we can handle. There for, He would not give someone a 'gene' that makes him or her gay - because how could s/he overcome or handle the force of a temptation that comes from his or her own body?

I believe that homosexuality is Satan's spin on love, in the sense that Satan's goal is to pervert or twist every good thing God has created. The Bible states in a few places that homosexuality is sin - which means it is a choice - and it is shameful and not to be done. I don't believe the Bible's meaning has changed any in all these years. God never changes. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God - therefor, His Word never changes, either.

I think that if the government wants to issue civil unions to homosexuals, let them. But I'd rather not have them adopt a Christian tradition and principle as their own. Just don't call it 'marriage'. And don't get me wrong - I don't have homosexuals. They're simply people who choose to live a sinful lifestyle. I have things in my life that I continue to do that are sin; how am I any better than they? The answer is 'not at all'. The Bible says that sin is all the same to God - there's no hierarchy of "not-so-bad, kinda bad, and REALLY BAD" sin to God. It's all sin, and equal.

*steps off her little soapbox*

:)

From:

banshee99.livejournal.com

Correction - I don't hate homosexuals.

Finger memory. :P

From:

hexkitten.livejournal.com

Hee hee hee. I figured that this was what you meant. It was funny to read that you don't "have" any, though. I mean, everybody should have a pet homosexual! ;)

Out of curiousity, which Bible passages specify that homosexuality is wrong? I'm not trying to belittle your opinion or anything. It's just that the one that specifically pops to mind (Sodom and Gemorrah [which I've probably misspelled horribly]) seems to indicate that God was more irritated with the hearts of the people engaging in the acts.

From:

vivisectasch.livejournal.com

I'd rather not have them adopt a Christian tradition and principle as their own. Just don't call it 'marriage'.

"Marriage" has already been taken up by the government. If I go out and get married tomorrow it has absolutely nothing to do with religious beliefs unless I want it to. It is, in most ways, exactly the same as the Christian idea of Marriage, however it isn't a church thing; it's a state thing.

It would be interesting to see how the public at large would react to a "marriage" thing being set up that is in all ways identical but was called something different and had nothing to do with religion. I mean ... in my opinion, it already is that way, aside from the name, but if I was told I could get A or B, both of which are the same except for the "religious connotations" of A, I would go for B. I am probably not the only one.

The Bible says that sin is all the same to God - there's no hierarchy of "not-so-bad, kinda bad, and REALLY BAD" sin to God. It's all sin, and equal.

People who make it a life-point to "sin against god" get married all the time. What about two Buddhists getting married in our country. They're actively worshiping false idols ... they probably mucked up the marriage ceremony with all of that, too. But it's still perfectly legal and nobody questions it.

From:

so-gracefully.livejournal.com

a point on which you are incorrect is that marriage "is a Christian principle/concept, stemming from the Bible". a GREAT MANY religions include marriage within their traditions, and speaking from EVERY basic scientific perspective, christianity was not the first religion to exist.

i also find it personally interesting that a religious individual would use a phrase like, "just because you feel something doesn't mean it's true." where does your personal truth about god come, if not from your feeling a certain way??

From:

htothem.livejournal.com

Marriage also predates Christianity. The Ancient Greeks got married. Think about Odysseus and Penelope.

From:

so-gracefully.livejournal.com

uhh, yeah, that's pretty much exactly what i said.

From:

lemur68.livejournal.com

First off, the institution of marriage is a Christian principle/concept

Are you stating that marriage is a Christian invention? If so, can you corroborate this with the appropriate Bible verse?

God is not going to create someone with sin in them and then condemn them for it.

"Everyone has turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one." (Psalms 53:3)

"All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags." (Isaiah 64:6)

"...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)

The Bible states in a few places that homosexuality is sin

"...in the New Testament it is only Paul who has anything significant to say about homosexuality. This is a striking feature for surely if homosexuality is so abhorrent to God then one would expect to find Jesus, God's Son (actually God on earth), making a comment on this issue. Instead we find Jesus says nothing."

I don't have (sic) homosexuals. They're simply people who choose to live a sinful lifestyle.

Every time I hear this party line parroted almost verbatim I fail to believe it, and I don't believe it this time.

The Bible says that sin is all the same to God - there's no hierarchy of "not-so-bad, kinda bad, and REALLY BAD" sin to God. It's all sin, and equal.

So gay is murder, then. Good to know.

From:

lemur68.livejournal.com

http://www.faithnet.org.uk/Theology/bibleandhomosexuality.htm

From:

twicketface.livejournal.com

First off, the institution of marriage is a Christian principle/concept, stemming from the Bible.

I've seen no evidence that marriage originated with Christianity - do you have a source for this? My understanding is that lots of people got married before Biblical times.

I believe that Satan is very good at dangling various temptations in front of all people, and the people with less moral upbringing and people that are more susceptible to attacks from Satan are more likely to succumb to the idea that the things they feel might be right for them.

So people who are 'morally inferior' are the ones who sin? Later on, you claim that all sin is equal (The Bible says that sin is all the same to God - there's no hierarchy of "not-so-bad, kinda bad, and REALLY BAD" sin to God. It's all sin, and equal.). If that's the case, since everyone sins, does it really matter? I don't think you can avoid sin, no matter how hard you try or how strong your convictions are. It's unavoidable. It can be minimized, but not eradicated.

God is not going to create someone with sin in them and then condemn them for it.
Isn't that what original sin is? Aren't we all created with sin in them until we are baptized?

God never changes. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God - therefor, His Word never changes, either.

I'm by no means a bible scholar, but aren't there lots of things in the bible that were once accepted as God's Word that have since been changed? Slavery (Exodus 21:7 and Lev. 25:44), not wearing garments that are made of two different materials (Lev. 19:19), even cutting your hair (Lev. 19:27) are all mentioned in the Bible, but we don't follow those 'rules' anymore.

It's all sin, and equal.

If you're essentially saying that all sin is the same, then again, what does it matter? Picture two people - one who lives a gay lifestyle and one who steals from his employer. In the end, if they're treated the same, so what? Aren't we better off as a society if people engage in non-harmful sins (the gay lifestyle) as opposed to other, more detrimental sins?

I am just trying to understand where you are coming from and I really appreciate you commenting - it's not always easy to disagree with someone and hope this has been more pleasant than your experiences in